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1. How could a 'catholic' site promote something like this! And in Holy Week too!
   
   Acceptance does not teach that homosexuals must practise chastity. It does not teach that homosexual acts are inherently disordered - rather it teaches those suffering this condition to be proud of the fact! Its claim on its front page that it doesn't aim to overturn Church teaching is contradicted by its 'what we believe' statement that:
   
   'In short, Acceptance is striving for full recognition and acceptance of homosexual, bisexual and transgender Catholics, enabling them to celebrate their God-given sexuality and to receive the Sacraments as full members of the Catholic Church.'
   
   This is completely incompatible with the teaching of the Church.
   
   Please, remove this link from your site immediately!
   

   Posted By: Terra

2. I find this item and site puzzling.Acceptance of what?The same sex orientated person has never been excluded from the faith .The thing that cuts us off from the Church is sin.A same sex attracted Catholic is asked to trust in God and accept that He will send them all the necessary graces to live with the attraction without giving in to it. Married people have to remain faithful, those called to celibacy to remain chaste.Acceptance of our need of grace to resist temptation is the type of acceptance needed

   Posted By: What does acceptance mean?

3. A great mission for the Church - thank God for those who have initiated this outreach.

   Posted By: marj carroll

4. Congratulations to Cathnews for featuring the Acceptenace Web Site. As a gay Catholic man l celebrate the fullness of my humanity and my sexuality in friendships and intimacy. I am not convinced by the teachings of the Catholic Catechism which would only permit me "disinterested friendships"(CCC 2359)
   
   I am encouraged by the work of Acceptence which promntes a spirituality and community that challenges the culture of homophobia in our Church as evident by the first couple of posts responding to this item.
   
   Let's hope that "Queer"" theology and hermeneutics will be taught in our houses of formation for clergy and religious. May we come to honour our 'Queer" saints and martyrs who have been ministers of the Gospel and witnesses to the faith.

   Posted By: Tony Robertson

5. The triumph of the Catholic Church is in its love and 'acceptance' of people of different sexuality, and indeed 'just' different.
   
   The deposit of Faith (the Catechism of the Catholic Church) states:
   2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. THEY MUST BE ACCEPTED with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfil God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
   
   Acceptance is thus fulfilling the Church's ministry, not only it is in-line with the Magisterium, but indeed living out the calling of God’s infinite love and mercy by its ministry to an already discriminated and marginalized group (as we can see from the posting on this site).
   
   Kudos to the Archdiocese of Sydney, Card. Pell and Acceptance!

   Posted By: Rev Fr John McKenzie

6. What a wonderfully healing and wholesome message of God's love for all people. Thank you Cathnews for featuring this word of Hope. God is praised by Acceptance I am sure. This is a fervent pathway to full communion with God and our Catholic church. I could kick my heels with joy as I read today’s featured website.
   
   My ageing Mum and Dad are pretty much old school and, like me, very very faithful to the church. I cannot wait to tell them about this group as they have often mentioned the negative talk towards homosexual people (probably as much as 18-20% of the total population) as a deficit in the church they live and love in.
   
   How wonderful that God calls all people to him and that there are many opportunities to embrace God's love through the church. Acceptance provides a crucial one that I am sure supports many parish priests and pastoral workers in their daily ministry as giving a sound reference and referral point. Well done to the courageous hearts in communion with God who despite fear and insecurity in the institution of the church offer this wonderful service of ministry.
   
   I have heard of this group ministering to others in need in the Sutherland Shire and many other places also. A group focused on God, united in prayer and with sound outreach to the poor is a treasured blessing and a wonderful encouragement for me in my faith journey.
   
   Peace and Love to all as we peel back the layers of the onion skin during this Holy Week in preparation of the celebration of the new covenant, the resurrection of God’s son, our Brother and Redeemer this Easter.
   
   Peace and Love,
   
   Ben

   Posted By: Ben

7. 'It strives for full recognition and acceptance' -- what powerful words and a true statement that this group, Acceptance Sydney, does promote and give example to.
   
   I have attended many of Acceptance Masses and to witness and feel the love of an embracing God so present in that assembly and, then reflect on the assembly of people automatically gathered at my 'straight' Church on a Sunday, cannot be measured.
   
   Come as You Are, beautiful words of a hymn written by Sr Deidre Brown. We are created in the likeness of God with all our imperfections and He just wants us to come as we are, not perfect, 'cause none of would make it.

   Posted By: marie harris

8. I am a Catholic. I don't have a theology degree, nor in fact do I believe I need one to be able to understand my christian faith.
   
   When someone approached Jesus did he ask anything of their life circumstance before welcoming them, accepting them? Did he teach the disciples, and through them us, too?
   
   As a human, I am not as good at this as Jesus was, but when I see another person I see their smile, I see how they treat others, I see how others treat them, I remember that at the core of my being is a desire to be loved and accepted, without judgement, to love and accept, again without judgement.
   
   Acceptance is a practice of faith and acceptance of others is faith in practice.
   
   I pray Acceptance continues to grow in the Spirit and Love of God.

   Posted By: Adrian

9. A group that encourages same-sex attracted Catholics to re-embrace their faith and to attend Mass is to be commended.
   
   Whether people, heterosexual or homosexual, are living a life of chastity is surely a matter for their own conscience.
   
   There is no morality test at the door of the church where women are asked if they ever use birth control or men are asked if they have ever slept with a woman before marriage.
   
   Let us not impose a stricter standard on one group of people. As the hymn has it "Come as You Are"
   
   

   Posted By: Ward

10. Terra,
    
    I've been to Acceptance events with my son, to show him that it is okay to be Catholic even though he is gay, that God loves him unconditionally and the church cares for all. Your utter hatred and senseless remarks and sheer ignorance disgust me and make me very angry.

    Posted By: TJ Lawson

11. My husband and I (Catholic parents of two gay sons) have been going to the Friday Mass celebrated by Acceptance for the last 13 years and I must say that this group is full of men and women who so want to celebrate and worship the God who made them, just as they are. Before people start to judge and ask for this site to be removed, why don't they learn more about the Mass and the people who so love their God still despite what is said of them not just today but everyday. I know that God is with his people both in this Mass and everyday of their lives, in this Holy Week don't we celebrate that God gave his only son for all his people? These men and woman are a great example of christian people who show more love for their God than I see in many other places in this world. Well done for Cath News for spreading this website, you will not regret it, the Holy Spirit will do the rest.
    

    Posted By: Sue from North Ryde

12. Terra, your lack of Christian-ness is striking. The site is not asking you to change your preference, just to treat people with the same respect you would seek for yourself. Hmm... that sounds familiar - it might make a good Golden Rule.
    
    Alternatively we could continue to deny the existence of a large section of the population and try to think of ways to deal with all the problems this will create, both for the homosexual individuals, their families and, not least, our homophobic children who continue to spend their lives hating.
    
    As for "What does acceptance mean?", perhaps we are meant to accept people regardless of what "sin" they commit - "judge not, lest ye be judged."
    
    I couldn't agree more with Marj. They do great work, which is vitally important in our Church which still discriminates against so many. Love ALL thy neighbours (yes, even Samaritans).

    Posted By: Brendan

13. I have often wondered how I would be if my son or daughter told me he or she was not heterosexual.
    I think I would be disappointed as I grew up thinking my children would be "normal'.But now I have known many non heterosexuals I can accept that " to be gay and lesbian is not a matter of choice" and what they do with their sexuality is their choice.

    Posted By: Love

14. Many gay people have been broken and wounded over the centuries by Church hatred and victimisation, just as Jewish people were. Please God Church teaching will develop to accept gay people as full human beings, not "objectively disordered" creatures on the margins, who are told to keep quiet and suffer in silence, and never have loving relationships.

    Posted By: toby

15. Does this group teach that homosexuality is an intrinsically disordered state [which it is depite all the hot denials] and that those with these tendencies must live a chaste life?
    
    One ex-homosexual told me that the most cruel thing said to him was that he 'was born that way and could not change' . he lives a chaste life and will not go near the group in Newtown.
    
    Readers might be interested in the following :
    
    'The results of a study conducted by Dr. Robert L. Spitzer have just been published in the Archives of Sexual Behavior, Vol. 32, No. 5, October 2003, pp. 403-417. Spitzer's findings challenge the widely-held assumption that a homosexual orientation is "who one is" -- an intrinsic part of a person's identity that can never be changed.'
    
    Full article at:
    http://www.narth.com/docs/evidencefound.html
    
    Dr Spitzer was the one who pushed for the change of classification of homosexuality in the DSM [Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of mental Disorders] 1973. He has since changed his view that it is an unalterable condition. He was 'mugged by reality'.
    

    Posted By: Skye

16. It saddens me greatly that people jump to conclusions and show a decided lack of Christian charity when it comes to gay and lesbian brothers and sisters in faith.
    
    I have been to services at Newtown on occasion and always felt welcomed warmly. Never was I told that I should ignore church teaching... this is a PASTORAL ministry that isn't about ruling over lives or dictating norms. They simply live and let live, and are some of the most genuine people I have met.
    
    Many thanks, Cathnews, for featuring this important group on your site.

    Posted By: A friend of Acceptance

17. Great to see a recognition of Acceptance. Being a parishioner at St Joseph's Newtown I have attended a number of the Friday night Masses and the faith is palpable. There was a particularly beautiful and moving Lenten Reconciliation recently. The Acceptance musicians and choir also play and sing at the Sunday Masses from time to time - they are great! What can be threatening about a group of gay men and women wanting to celebrate the Eucharist in such a prayerful way? Surely it is the Holy Spirit at work. The liturgy reminds me that God's covenant with his people of faith is symbolised by a rainbow in the Old Testament - rather prophetic don't you think? Tim

    Posted By: Tim Smyth

18. I am saddened when I read the comments of Terra, 'What does acceptance mean?' and Skye.
    
    For many years I struggled with my own sexuality. Even when a priest told me within the Sacrament of Reconciliation, "God made you and what God made is good" I found it hard to accept that I was different from the norm. This was never my choice, I fought and fought it, living an asexual life for many years.
    
    When I spent a few months in Sydney in 2006, I came to know of the Acceptance group and went to my first Mass with them. What I met was total acceptance from a group of loving people. People didn't want me to oppose Church teaching or wear a rainbow sash. They wanted me to experience the loving face of God. They are Acceptance by name and Acceptance by nature.
    
    Jesus said absolutely nothing about same-sex relationships, but he did reach out to the poor and marginalised of his day. The only people he would have described as 'intrinsically evil' were the scribes and Pharisees, those so bogged down with their rules & regulations , they 'increased men's burdens'. Those who criticise gay and lesbian people today also add to our burdens. They will quote Leviticus & St. Paul but ignore the inconvenient parts of Leviticus and fail to realise that St Paul criticised those who adopted sexual practices associated with pagan worship, not because they happened to love one another.
    
    Remember what Jesus said about taking the plank out of your own eye before noticing the splinter in your neighbour's eye.
    
    May Acceptance go from strength to strength. It's a shame that a similar empowering group does not exist in every city & town in Australia.
    
    Robin

    Posted By: Robin

19. Acceptance provides a wonderful place for many Catholics who wish to remain loyal to the church. Please be very careful about publishing anti-gay propaganda: some members of the community are very vulnerable. They need support - not criticism.

    Posted By: maria sullivan

20. I am all for acceptance if it means that people are welcomed in spite of being sinful, but not if acceptance amounts to saying that you are fine where you are. Also, if people are to be accepted (and they should be, as the adulterous woman was, and told to go and sin no more), they should be accepted not by some breakaway community, but by the Church of God in its day-to-day parish life. Think about where this is heading. Why not have an acceptance-like community for thieves and for gangsters, and for those who see visions, and for liars, and for the lustful, and the gossipers and so on? I mean, they are made in the image and likeness of God too, are they not?

    Posted By: Adeodatus

21. To quote Timothy Radcliffe OP Master General of the Dominicans in "Why go to Church" (Comtinuum 2008) p115,
    ".... This is an act of Christian priesthood, claiming for the kingdom those who are considered as dirt .. and who are the people whom we , the Church, thrust out, or at least leave hanging around on the edge, as second-class citizens: the divorced and remarried, people living with partners, GAY PEOPLE ( my caps). There must be a place for them around our altar, rejoicing in Christ's hospitality along with everyone else."

    Posted By: Rev Gregory (ex roman Catholic but still catholic)

22. Thank you so much for featuring Acceptance Sydney. I am glad to see that, though the wider community can be hostile still (thank you for confirming that, Terra), my faith can grow in the love of God and the Church with the full support of friends and family who see that I am who I am.

    Posted By: Janek

23. I commend cathnews for seeking to advertise a website that supports homosexuals.
    
    However, as I went about informing myself of the site I found nothing that encourages men and women with same-sex attraction to live life in full communion with the Church. Could someone please point me to where the website may do that?
    
    Also, Ben, what source are you citing when you say that 18 - 20% of the population are of homosexual orientation? Are these statistics based on first class evidence? Please share your source.
    
    I agree with all of you that Terra has not provided an example of what we are called to be or do as Catholics. However, from what I can read, and as mentioned before, I would be grateful for someone to show me otherwise, nor does Acceptance.
    
    If I was to begin to unpack what is not Catholic about the Acceptance website it would be recommending the reading of John Shelby Spong who has no regard for what is Catholic. Secondly putting a link to the aids council...you know they are pro-abortion don’t you? Lastly, given that the Church that Acceptance is part of endorses life-long committed relationships, how can bisexuality be Catholic?
    
    Let's get real people. Yes the Church is diverse but the Aids council? Spong? Bisexuality?
    
    Anyhow they are just my initial thoughts.
    
    

    Posted By: Adam

24. I'm a bit disappointed (but unsurprised) at those who have accused me of hatred etc because I said absolutely nothing that could possibly be construed as hatred. Rather, I simply pointed out the Church's teaching on this subject.
    
    I'm all in favour of encouraging homosexuals (or any other type of sinner) to come back to/stay in the Church. And if that was what this group was doing I'd be in favour of it.
    
    But instead it appears to be promoting acceptance of a gay culture that is totally at odds with a catholic one. It is not enough to 'come as we are' - we must also seek to be transformed in Christ, to strive for perfection, for sanctification and faithfulness to truth. Not to cling to aspects of ourselves that drag us back to sin.

    Posted By: Terra

25. Why the term "gay Catholic"? I don't go around calling heterosexuals "straight Catholics" or murderers "killer Catholics".
    
    Just because I feel like eating chocolate doesn't mean chocolate is good for me. (And I love chocolate!). I know chocolate isn't good for me because my body tells me so (even if I want to ignore it, and believe me I try). So, even if chocolate makes me feel good for a few minutes I feel sick after!
    
    What is my point you say?
    
    If everybody in the world loved and accepted the Catholic Church, it wouldn't make it right. But let's face reality, because many hate and reject the Church it doesn't make it wrong either. Popularity / feelings do not demonstrate what is good or bad.
    
    If everybody in the world loved and accepted homosexuality, it wouldn't make it right and it's not because people "feel" homophobic about homosexuality that makes it wrong either.
    
    Just like chocolate, homosexuals (and I bet, every homosexual in the world can attest to this) feel sick after a homosexual experience. Because just like chocolate, even though it FEELS good it is bad for you. But this experience of sickness differs from the chocolate one, it is deeper, rooted in the very soul, it is spiritual.
    
    The Catholic Church does not condemn the homosexual, she condemns homosexuality.
    

    Posted By: Naso

26. "Charity" has a charitable duty to its fellow man to lead him/her to the truth, regardless of confrontation, pain, rejection, scandal and worldly disapproval. Charity is not modern, it is timeless.
    
    History tells us the Church lives charity in each and every age, the Church's life is charity, the Church lives for the people that need charity the most.
    
    No one is more accepting and loving then the Catholic Church. It is founded on Charity itself and in every age calls all people to her.
    
    But that's what it does, teaches the truth - because this is the duty of charity. Let's look at our own sensitivities before we judge the Church - for don't our own sensitivities and discriminations lead us to discriminate the Church for discriminating?
    
    The Church has a divine role, it is not out to condemn you to hell. It is out to lead you to heaven.

    Posted By: Chris

27. Due to original sin, we all live with sinful temptations.
    
    We "celebrate" them in the sense that we accept them and the struggle to resist them, as a gift from God, as St Paul accepted his "thorn in the flesh". Those temptations of the sexual nature can be the strongest to resist, whether homosexual or heterosexual, paedophile or adulterous, solitary or promiscuous, pornographic or sado-masochistic.
    
    I know nothing about Acceptance in Sydney. Does it assist homosexuals to live a life of purity and sanctity as they battle their characteristic "objective disorder"?
    
    And why does Acceptance attend the annual Mardi Gras? Is it to witness to fellow homosexuals the call of Christ for all to live a life of chastity? Or is it there to say "It's OK not to struggle against temptation - just go with the flow?"
    
    The Acceptance website doesn't make this abundantly clear.
    
    I'm a heterosexual and I have all manner of sexual temptations from time to time. What does "celebrating" my heterosexuality mean? That I resist those temptations and pray for grace to strengthen me in my struggle, or that I, too, go with the flow? Is there one rule for homosexuals and one for everyone else?

    Posted By: Hugh

28. Thanks for showing this website Cathnews! And thank you to the Acceptance group for encouraging our gay and lesbian Catholic brothers and sisters to grow with God’s love in a supportive faith filled community!
    
    LC
    

    Posted By: LC

29. A wonderful and reverent church as half the congregation is always kneeling

    Posted By: Gareth

30. Acceptance should apologise to Cardinal Pell for supporting the Mardi Gras where the poor man is made fun of.
    What has Cardinal Pell ever done to you?
    Hardly Christian behaviour what goes on at this event.
    
    

    Posted By: Uncle Chop, Chop

31. The church is founded by Christ but led by the common man and inevitably subject to human limitations. We need to understand that as our basis for what we 'accept' as the church's teachings.
    
    How can our differences find common unity? By faith, love and acceptance. We have come a long way from from the crusades, racial and gender discrimination. Acceptance is part of the church's evolution to sharing and finding one humanity and ultimately discovering God.
    
    Thank you Acceptance and Cathnews for bringing down the walls that divide us.

    Posted By: mervyn

32. Mervyn, the Church is founded by Christ, and as He promised, infallibly led by God the Holy Spirit. Her unchanging dogmas of faith and morals, such as that sodomy is and always will be gravely evil, are Divinely guided and not at all subject to human limitations. You need to understand this utterly basic fact about Catholicism.

    Posted By: Ronk

33. One may and indeed must accept the fact that we are all sinners. Let he who be without sin cast the first stone.
    HOWEVER...
    A sinner is someone who kneels at the back of the synagogue or Church, beats their breast and says "Lord be merciful to me a sinner".
    Just as we do NOT have a Church organisation for 'de facto' couples, the Catholic Church cannot form, much less support, an organisation which explicitly condones homosexual behaviour. There is only ONE FLOCK and ONE CHURCH. If those with a homosexual orientation live according to the teaching of the Catholic Church then there should be nothing stopping them from worshipping together with every other Catholic who is a sinner.
    Forming such a group is political and has nought to do with "ut unum sint". Such efforts are NOT inclusive but to the contrary VERY DIVISIVE. They imply that the Church would condone homosexual behaviour which SHE CANNOT and NEVER WILL.
    'Come as you are' is NOT Catholic, for which reason it has NOT been approved as a hymn to be used within the liturgy.
    Our Divine Saviour Jesus Christ preached "REPENT". EVERYONE, heterosexual and those with a homosexual orientation are to REPENT. We do NOT go around PROUD of our concupiscence.
    (For those who would quote St. Paul as one 'proud of his weaknesses', this is not an exaltation of sinfulness, but a profession of humility of a man who recognised his utter dependence on the Grace of God.)

    Posted By: Becket

34. To those quoting dogma, consider that the Church has not stayed the same over the last 2000 years.
    
    Jesus' teachings were radical, and for that he was put to death. He never claimed, though, that the Church could not progress further than where it would be in AD100. This is obvious, of course, as much of our theology has come from dialogue and from challenging the established "accepted" wisdom.
    
    To believe that the Church has reached perfection and cannot change further would neglect the slow, but positive, changes occuring in attitudes towards women. Vatican II contributed to this and few would reject that these advances have been positive.
    
    The history of the Church is a dynamic one. There is no shame in being at the forefront of necessary change which returns to Christ's message of "acceptance".

    Posted By: Brendan

35. Brendan, true Christian theology is "faith seeking understanding" - dwelling upon and thinking about the implications of the Revelation which concluded with the death of the last Apostle, and is handed down in Sacred Tradition. Dogma by definition is an unchangeable part of the Apostolic faith. Any "challenge" to dogma aimed at materially changing it is false theology.

    Posted By: Ronk

36. Very interesting to read both sides of the coin on this topic. Interestingly, I have a feeling that the response is more positive than negative.
    
    Despite what people may well think, we have not always had the best guidance as to what is right from the Catholic Church, or any other religious instrumentality. And, what is right and what is wrong constantly changes for both society and for the Church.
    
    As a Catholic, I am saddened to know that the Church has been directly responsible for the murder of countless souls over the millennia and indirectly for the loss of life of many others predicated on what she thinks is right (in this I refer to the suicide and persecution of men and women abandoned by their Church). I was happy on the day when Pope John Paul II apologised for several past atrocities of the Church.
    
    What is pertinent here is that JPII apologised for actions condoned, encouraged and authorised at points in time by the Holy See. Demonstrably man (and even Popes) are not infallible.
    
    As Catholics, as Christians and as human beings, we are called to reject that which lies against our moral code (what the Church might term the work of the evil one). This includes the persecution of others, the inhumane treatment of prisoners and the prohibition of love. The love that a man or women can have for a person of the same gender is as powerful, if not in many cases stronger, that the love a person can experience from heterosexual marriage. And certainly, I am not aware of anyone who is in a long term relationship with a person of the same gender feeling 'guilty' after a sexual experience. In fact, from personal experience the opposite holds true.
    
    Monogamous heterosexual marriage is, funnily enough, a relatively recent concept. The bible speaks of Abraham, Jacob and many others as having numerous wives and concubines. Concubines are not wives, yet they provided children to the wealthy of the tribes of Israel. Quite often, as the old wives aged the wealthy men (not the poor ones) took younger, more attractive wives to fulfill, what some commentators on this site have termed, their lustful tendencies. This practice was condoned by the bible, yet polygamy is condemned by the present Church.
    
    I do not believe, nor accept, that God is against love and intimacy between people.
    
    Keep up the good work and your Godly mission,
    
    With warmest regards
    John

    Posted By: John

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